Sens. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski demanded to know Wednesday whether President Trump showed any interest in former Vice President Joseph R. Biden’s actions in Ukraine before he was a political opponent.
The question stumped Mr. Trump’s legal team.
“I can’t point to something in the record,” said Patrick Philbin, one of the president’s lawyers, during questions in the Senate impeachment trial.
Mr. Philbin said he is only able, during the trial, to refer to evidence the House compiled during its impeachment inquiry, or information in the public record. Neither includes the answer to when Mr. Trump began to target the Biden family.
Mr. Trump insists he has long been worried about corruption in Ukraine, and that military assistance to that country was delayed over those concerns, not because he wanted to take out a political opponent. House Democrats disagree on Mr. Trump’s motives, and have approved two articles of impeachment based on their suspicions.
That the question about Mr. Trump came from Ms. Collins and Ms. Murkowski is striking. They are two of the Republicans believed to be on the fence over whether to ask for more witnesses to testify — and perhaps to vote to convict Mr. Trump.
Mr. Philbin did say that the president’s lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, did show interest in corruption on Ukraine beforehand, and was acting on Mr. Trump’s behalf.
The lawyer pointed to several stories that showed Mr. Giuliani querying the role of Mr. Biden in getting a former Ukrainian prosecutor fired at the same time that man was supposed to be investigating Burisma, a company Mr. Biden’s son was working for.
Even as the president’s team struggled with that question, Mr. Trump’s defense was strengthened in the form of a new article from the Daily Beast in which a former senior Ukrainian military official said they didn’t know the aid was held up until late August — more than a month after the phone call between Mr. Trump and Ukrainian’s president that’s at the crux of the impeachment case.
Later in the proceedings Ms. Murkowski asked a question, through Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., who was presiding. She said there’s no rule on whether impeachment requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt — the standard in a criminal trial — or preponderance of evidence, or some other lesser standard. She asked both sides what standard they should use.
Rep. Zoe Lofgren, one of the Democratic impeachment managers, said there’s no official standard and each senator must make that decision.
Mr. Philbin, though, said in the Clinton impeachment those on both sides said the Senate needed to use a “reasonable doubt” standard.
Mr. Murkowski later aimed a question at House Democrats, wondering why they didn’t take easy steps to fix their subpoenas they issued before they actually voted for an impeachment inquiry last year.
The White House called those subpoenas invalid and refused to comply, spurring the impeachment charge of obstruction of Congress.
Rep. Sylvia Garcia, Texas Democrat, said the House could do whatever it wanted.
“It is for the House, not the president, to decide how to conduct an impeachment inquiry,” the congresswoman said.
Sen. Mitt Romney, another Republican who’s seen as a potential defector from Mr. Trump, asked the president’s lawyers when Mr. Trump actually placed the hold, and what his reasons are.
Mr. Philbin said the date isn’t in the record, but said American officials were aware by July 3. And he said a month earlier, Mr. Trump had complained that the U.S. was shouldering an unequal part of the burden in protecting Ukraine, and wanted Europe to do more.
• Stephen Dinan can be reached at sdinan@washingtontimes.com.
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